Welcome back to I'm a Software Engineer ~ What Next? The podcast for devs figuring out their next move. Hosted by James Wilson and Matt Sinclair, we talk honestly about what it takes to build a meaningful career in tech.
Laid off? You're not alone — and it doesn't mean you're broken. In this week's episode of I'm a Software Engineer ~ What Next?, we talk to Steve Jaffe, ad industry veteran and author of 'The Layoff Journey', about how to bounce back after losing your job — and how to find real clarity in the chaos.
Steve's been through four layoffs — from the dot-com crash to 2023's tech contraction. The difference? Now he knows how to handle it.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why most people handle layoffs wrong
- The 7 emotional stages of being let go (and why you shouldn't skip them)
- How layoffs can spark growth, renewal, and even joy
- What hiring managers really think about CV gaps
- How to turn a layoff into your career pivot moment
- Advice for engineers, hiring managers, and anyone who's felt lost after being let go
Whether you're applying for your next engineering role or hiring your next dev, this one's got real talk, practical advice, and a few rants.
🎧 39 minutes. Zero fluff. Tune in now.
⏱️ Chapters
- 0:00 Intro: the Space Invaders "classically trained" t-shirt
- 0:30 Meet Steve Jaffe: "What happens in Vegas" ad man, The Layoff Journey author
- 1:37 Four layoffs in 22 years: from the 2001 WorldCom collapse to 2023
- 4:11 Shame and embarrassment: a layoff is a budget exercise, not being fired
- 5:58 Why most people handle layoffs wrong: jumping back in before processing
- 8:34 The stages of grief as a framework: Kubler-Ross and the seven stages
- 10:17 The hardest stage: depression, and separating self-worth from work
- 12:17 Take a pause: a detour, not a roadblock, and a chance to pivot
- 14:37 What hiring managers see: candidates who won't talk about the layoff
- 15:59 Cyclical or structural? Why layoffs feel more common than ever
- 18:23 Picking the team each season: in tech it's closer to 100%
- 21:05 The trigger word AI: R&D tax changes and Bullsh*t Jobs
- 22:30 The hourglass: AI guts the middle, not the juniors
- 25:24 "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas": AI will never have that insight
- 27:17 Everybody wanted a website, then an app, now AI
- 28:52 The Jagged Frontier: 200,000 lines of Claude code, the taste to keep 50,000
- 31:37 AI slop and easy apply: 5,000 applications per job hurts both sides
- 32:26 Renewal: why a layoff can be the best thing that ever happened to you
- 34:50 What readers should take from The Layoff Journey: you are not damaged goods
- 36:37 The magic telephone: it's not about me, it's about the people
- 37:39 Wrap-up: thestevejaffe.com, a free chapter, and like and subscribe
🔗 Links
🗒️ Show Notes
- Steve's book 'The Layoff Journey'
- The Kubler-Ross Model - Stages of Grief
- The 'Bullsh*t Jobs' theory by David Graeber
🗣️ Guest
- Steve Jaffe — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaffesteve
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